If this is an unironic costume party does this mean Jane sees herself as a sort of Mad Men kind of guy? All selling bootleg alcohol and Brooklyn bridges during the day and going back home to stir a drunken domestic ruckus with his wife while jazz music plays somberly in the background?
"I WORK ALL DAY FER OUR CHILDREN, WOMAN!" *smack* [Miles Davis's Blue in Green intensifies] "LORD MY BACK IS BENT AN' MY HEART IS HEAVY"
Mar didn’t used to be basic when she was with Will or even after when she shaved her head! her character was sort of weak and still evolving back then but wasn’t basic….I can name a person from my own life that fits her type so well, like I wish Mar didn’t develop in this way but it was sort of inevitable??
Marigold is one of my favorite characters in this strip. She and Puget Sean both started almost as side gags but ended up developing wonderfully. Marigold is particularly vivid… I feel like I know many iterations of her character living in the San Francisco Bay Area, thriving on the startup and corp. culture there, reinventing themselves as somehow having matured or gained power, half-joking half-bragging about how they have "real job" now…
The thing is she is actually happy and doing well and it’s a little sick that Hanna takes that as an attack. I’m certain Marigold isn’t thinking of Hanna during all this.
Shade of Blue
Oh yeah, absolutely. But I think eventually we will start seeing Marigold pondering the merits of her new life and desiring to change herself just as she always has.
Man, that skyline looks so nice, especially in color.
Also I've probs said it like 5000x but I relate a lot to Hannah this whole story line and it's making me uncomfortable cause she's being kind of an obvious jerk.
No, she's not saying that, she's responding to Hannah's accusation, that Marigold is doing this to mock Hannah somehow. Jane has a point: Nothing we've seen of Marigold suggests she is the type to think that way at all.
I been thinking… could the ghost (at the beginning of the party) be Marek? The ghost was explaining that the costume was inspired by his childhood… simply and folksy http://www.octopuspie.com/2013-04-03/595-the-90s/ plus I saw some red hair…
Maybe this is me being thick, but I don’t see what’s so basic about Mar or what she’s doing that’s so offensive. It looks to me like Mar is just doing what she wants to do and making a life for herself. She seems happy. Hannah’s reaction to Mar reads like misplaced resentment and envy. How is Mar’s life a commentary on Hannah? Does Hannah just need someone to blame for her own unhappiness?
Then again, I’m biased: I’ve never liked Hannah. This storyline cements her in my mind as a toxic person.
Yeah, I don't think Marigold is being literally painted as basic -she's just having fun and being happy, as you say! I read it more as Jane calling her that as a way of trying to hit on Hanna lol
And VERY often, when people are miserable, they have a lot of trouble being happy about their friends' happiness. Hanna is being a jerk, but that's just cause she's human.
It is indeed resentment and envy. Because Mar actually managed to go from a really bad breakup to a good life and improving herself, and Hanna feels she's failed doing that so she's "mad" at Marigold for having done what she can't do.
If you've never felt that way, well you're a very lucky person.
Also, since it seems there's always been an edge of patronization/contempt from Hanna to Marigold, the fact she's making it work for her, specifically without Hanna's help to boot, is just extra glass in the eye.
I get that she’s hurting, but I don’t understand why her reaction to it is so…unhealthy? I’ve been through terrible breakups before, where I felt like I was going to die I was so unhappy, so I know at least to some extent how painful it is to lose someone you love. I can also understand how such an experience might breed irrational resentment, though I don’t think that should excuse bad behavior. I just also happen to think that Hannah’s reaction to her breakup is indicative of what sort of person she is overall.
I don’t think this is the first time Hannah has lashed out at Mar for no good reason, either. The impression I’ve always gotten is that Hannah looks down on her, though I’ve never been sure exactly why. I read this latest scene as Hannah expressing her anger at Marigold for not being that pitiable figure anymore, like it’s not just about Mar doing what Hannah can’t right now but Hannah being angry that Mar is no longer enabling her sense of superiority. Mar’s not miserable anymore, and she did it by embracing a lifestyle and goals that Hannah has always despised or looked down on as being conventional and “basic.”
Actually, didn’t Marek and Hannah break up because Marek, to some degree, is a conventional person himself? He wanted to have kids and settle down, build a different life. Hannah didn’t. Maybe when Hannah looks at Mar, she sees that conventional/”basic” personality who could have stayed with Marek and made it work. Maybe the deeper connection she’s making is Mar as a representation of that slightly more traditional woman that Marek ultimately wants.
Aaand I’ve just remembered that this is a fictional character and I clearly have too much time on my hands…
Keep in mind the "basic" comment is coming from Jane, who is herself on a permanent, self-defeating quest for authenticity. "Basic" to her is just a way to explain someone else's happiness away as them just being stupider than her. I think here she might just be saying that to calm Hanna down a bit though.
It's weird, I've also never liked Hanna and I feel like this storyline should be doing the same, but now I find her the most sympathetic she's been. Part of that's pity, but I think she's also a bit relatable now because she's more raw and emotional and that's resulting in a greater level of authenticity, even if the picture it paints isn't very pretty.
In conclusion, I relate best with emotional messes.
I hope Hannah remains the focus of the comic for a while, it's really shed a lot of light on her character. Especially with one of the legs of her stool kicked out (Marek).
This is creepy/cheesy/weird but I'm reminded of the Joker's line… He says something like… He favors the most painful method of attack because pain reveals all the little details about a person that they would normally never reveal, not even to their closest friends. I feel like because of the pain caused by her breakup, we're seeing a very closeted side to Hannah at this time.
Am I the only one who thinks it's really….like, *really* mean to call a person 'basic? like one of the meanest things ever? it's like saying they don't matter 'as much' as some other people, or they're just not as…important or something. It's astounding. Who talks like that???
It's like that expression that's been kicking around, calling someone a "waste of space." I feel the same way about calling a person 'basic' as when I hear that expression being used. Stop being so mean, Rooftop Girl!
I do think her truthbomb on Hanna was, while blunt, kindof accurate in this case.
I’m pretty sure she just meant like, a person who is emotionally uncomplicated. Someone who is the opposite of Hannah right now, who is applying meaning where there is no meaning. Mar isn’t doing any of that stuff that Hannah thinks she is doing. She’s just having her own life, and Hannah needs something to be angry about.
I just took it to mean that the character (pretty sure it's Jane, the too-cool coffee barista friend of Eve's with a thing for Julie, Eve's cutsey, naive former coworker) was just saying that Marigold isn't the type to go to elaborate lengths to mess with someone. She's basic in that she's fairly straightforward, and deals with things in a pretty direct manner. She's not complex because she doesn't scheme or over-analyze others, therefor she's basic.
TLDR; I didn't get the sense that it was being used as an insult or to be dismissive, but rather to discount the possibility of Hannah's accusation.
Agreed, I'm not sure why so many people are reading it the other way.
Laura
I don't know-calling someone 'simple' or 'basic' seem to be somewhat pejorative terms to me most of the time. Calling someone 'straight forward' on the other hand, seems perfectly natural and, in Mar's case, spot on for sure. The context in which Jane is calling Mar 'basic' lends itself (at least to me) to the whole 'dismissive' tone of this conversation. Also, Jane knows precious little about Mar and how she works; she has no idea how complicated Mar may or may not be; so, to that end, I feel that her snap-judgement of Mar is hurtful and mean.
But this is just one gal's ramblings about a comic of course.
MerchManDan
For what it's worth, I agree: Calling somebody 'basic' is a pretty brutal insult and I'm surprised so many people are rushing to defend Jane for using it to describe Mar. Then again, reading the comments helps me understand their reasoning so I kind of agree with them too?
Sorry, this comment didn't quite go the way I originally meant it to.
Now I don't think I can relate to Hanna. I mean, I totally get the jealousy thing, but I don't think I've ever had to confront the idea that I'm the bad guy in any of my relationships. Nope. Never had to do that.
Wow, Hanna. We would never be friends because the earth would be forever scorched from all the truthbombs I'd drop on you for being absolutely horrible to others that are trying to live a happy life.
yeah, it's completely ridiculous how much of her energies are directed to hating Mar-with a passion. And Mar has and continues to stay the eff out of her way too, as much as possible! Jesus. It's hard to see Hanna hate somebody so much.
But I still think I'm the most stunned by Jane calling Mar 'basic', as though that's an okay way to talk about any human being. AUGH.
Hannah is not one of the good guys; she is clearly some kind of NPC gnome artificer that will supply the party with stat-enhancing baked goods in exchange for pipeweed, but now she has been feeling underlevelled and not getting enough XP for far too long.
I feel bad for Hannah, because while she absolutely needs to hear a lot of this, she's not likely to receive the message when it's put this harshly, and all-at-once from multiple sources. At least, it's been my experience observing others (and myself) that people just tend to get defensive and go into denial when they feel like they're under attack.
Hannah is probably my favorite character in the strip, because I feel like she's driven a lot of OP's best character art; between her mercurial behavior and spastic physical comedy, we see a lot of diverse style through strips focused on or featuring her. I mean, think of some of the cartoony, almost Loony Toons-esque slapstick moments, and then go back a couple pages and look at the gorgeous panel of Hannah looking wistful in her costume before she announces that she's backsliding. The musical number strip about emptiness at the beginning of her interest in jogging. The expressiveness during her first attempt to run. Or her rage-face in this strip. I love Meredith's art, and I feel like a character study of Hannah over the strip's life would make the best showcase of OP's variety.
"She" thinks she's an idealized version of Hanna…? Sounds more like HANNA thinks shes an idealized version of herself. I've been there, that's a rough feeling. I hope Hanna makes it out of this funk, I so want her to be happy again!!
Thank you Meredith, for writing characters that are so wonderful, complex, relatable, and REAL to my generation. Your work inspires great conversations. Thank you thank you thank you!
I love that last panel. I would buy just that panel as a print. I come back to look at this specific page all the time. There's something so acerbic and freeing about it.
54 thoughts on “#733 – who does she think she is”
wowzow
Cinderella lost her shoes.
Arkadi
Not yet: they're right there in front of her. She did get close to losing her shit, though. Might still happen.
Doc Harleen
Know what I love about Octopus Pie? I can relate to every character's feelings.
jimena
totally I'm seeing some aspects of my life in here
Alex
If this is an unironic costume party does this mean Jane sees herself as a sort of Mad Men kind of guy? All selling bootleg alcohol and Brooklyn bridges during the day and going back home to stir a drunken domestic ruckus with his wife while jazz music plays somberly in the background?
"I WORK ALL DAY FER OUR CHILDREN, WOMAN!" *smack* [Miles Davis's Blue in Green intensifies] "LORD MY BACK IS BENT AN' MY HEART IS HEAVY"
Siggy
I figured Jane was Gatsy because she was hosting the party.
Also: http://www.thepekinois.com/wp-content/uploads/201…
Hannah
Wow you guys are amazing how did you pick that up!
Fed
Bruh she's J. Gatsby
woooow
Wow, Hanna is getting bombarded by a lot of reality bombs these days. I don't think she can take it.
Weed Enema
Try dating girls for a while Hanna. Gotta cHange it up.
Bonnie
Mar didn’t used to be basic when she was with Will or even after when she shaved her head! her character was sort of weak and still evolving back then but wasn’t basic….I can name a person from my own life that fits her type so well, like I wish Mar didn’t develop in this way but it was sort of inevitable??
Shade of Blue
Marigold is one of my favorite characters in this strip. She and Puget Sean both started almost as side gags but ended up developing wonderfully. Marigold is particularly vivid… I feel like I know many iterations of her character living in the San Francisco Bay Area, thriving on the startup and corp. culture there, reinventing themselves as somehow having matured or gained power, half-joking half-bragging about how they have "real job" now…
Beth
The thing is she is actually happy and doing well and it’s a little sick that Hanna takes that as an attack. I’m certain Marigold isn’t thinking of Hanna during all this.
Shade of Blue
Oh yeah, absolutely. But I think eventually we will start seeing Marigold pondering the merits of her new life and desiring to change herself just as she always has.
Josh
Ughhhhhhhhhhhh yer right
Lane
Jane's outfit reminds me of Gatsby. And in panel 4 Hannah looks like a Funko Pop of herself.
Connor
Yeah she made me think of Nick Carraway, hey
chris
Man, that skyline looks so nice, especially in color.
Also I've probs said it like 5000x but I relate a lot to Hannah this whole story line and it's making me uncomfortable cause she's being kind of an obvious jerk.
Yotomoe
I'm not 100% sure, Hanna, but I think she thinks she's a princess.
spookyhooha
god how I want them to hook up.
Bernadette
C'mon, Jane! Don't call Marigold 'basic' just because she's loving life, or whatever. That's super lame.
Insanenoodlyguy
No, she's not saying that, she's responding to Hannah's accusation, that Marigold is doing this to mock Hannah somehow. Jane has a point: Nothing we've seen of Marigold suggests she is the type to think that way at all.
jon
"Not one of the good guys."
Dude, you have *no* idea about the ride ahead…
Karinpa
I been thinking… could the ghost (at the beginning of the party) be Marek? The ghost was explaining that the costume was inspired by his childhood… simply and folksy http://www.octopuspie.com/2013-04-03/595-the-90s/ plus I saw some red hair…
Kathleen
If Jane’s Gatsby, then who is she pining for? Still Julie? Or is she Gatsby bc everybody thinks she’s super cool but she’s insecure?
000
Maybe this is me being thick, but I don’t see what’s so basic about Mar or what she’s doing that’s so offensive. It looks to me like Mar is just doing what she wants to do and making a life for herself. She seems happy. Hannah’s reaction to Mar reads like misplaced resentment and envy. How is Mar’s life a commentary on Hannah? Does Hannah just need someone to blame for her own unhappiness?
Then again, I’m biased: I’ve never liked Hannah. This storyline cements her in my mind as a toxic person.
Kate
Yeah, I don't think Marigold is being literally painted as basic -she's just having fun and being happy, as you say! I read it more as Jane calling her that as a way of trying to hit on Hanna lol
heywhosyourdaddy
Hey, Hanna is just hurting. A lot.
And VERY often, when people are miserable, they have a lot of trouble being happy about their friends' happiness. Hanna is being a jerk, but that's just cause she's human.
It is indeed resentment and envy. Because Mar actually managed to go from a really bad breakup to a good life and improving herself, and Hanna feels she's failed doing that so she's "mad" at Marigold for having done what she can't do.
If you've never felt that way, well you're a very lucky person.
insanenoodlyguy
Also, since it seems there's always been an edge of patronization/contempt from Hanna to Marigold, the fact she's making it work for her, specifically without Hanna's help to boot, is just extra glass in the eye.
000
I get that she’s hurting, but I don’t understand why her reaction to it is so…unhealthy? I’ve been through terrible breakups before, where I felt like I was going to die I was so unhappy, so I know at least to some extent how painful it is to lose someone you love. I can also understand how such an experience might breed irrational resentment, though I don’t think that should excuse bad behavior. I just also happen to think that Hannah’s reaction to her breakup is indicative of what sort of person she is overall.
I don’t think this is the first time Hannah has lashed out at Mar for no good reason, either. The impression I’ve always gotten is that Hannah looks down on her, though I’ve never been sure exactly why. I read this latest scene as Hannah expressing her anger at Marigold for not being that pitiable figure anymore, like it’s not just about Mar doing what Hannah can’t right now but Hannah being angry that Mar is no longer enabling her sense of superiority. Mar’s not miserable anymore, and she did it by embracing a lifestyle and goals that Hannah has always despised or looked down on as being conventional and “basic.”
Actually, didn’t Marek and Hannah break up because Marek, to some degree, is a conventional person himself? He wanted to have kids and settle down, build a different life. Hannah didn’t. Maybe when Hannah looks at Mar, she sees that conventional/”basic” personality who could have stayed with Marek and made it work. Maybe the deeper connection she’s making is Mar as a representation of that slightly more traditional woman that Marek ultimately wants.
Aaand I’ve just remembered that this is a fictional character and I clearly have too much time on my hands…
Bok
Keep in mind the "basic" comment is coming from Jane, who is herself on a permanent, self-defeating quest for authenticity. "Basic" to her is just a way to explain someone else's happiness away as them just being stupider than her. I think here she might just be saying that to calm Hanna down a bit though.
Sev
It's weird, I've also never liked Hanna and I feel like this storyline should be doing the same, but now I find her the most sympathetic she's been. Part of that's pity, but I think she's also a bit relatable now because she's more raw and emotional and that's resulting in a greater level of authenticity, even if the picture it paints isn't very pretty.
In conclusion, I relate best with emotional messes.
Shade of Blue
I hope Hannah remains the focus of the comic for a while, it's really shed a lot of light on her character. Especially with one of the legs of her stool kicked out (Marek).
This is creepy/cheesy/weird but I'm reminded of the Joker's line… He says something like… He favors the most painful method of attack because pain reveals all the little details about a person that they would normally never reveal, not even to their closest friends. I feel like because of the pain caused by her breakup, we're seeing a very closeted side to Hannah at this time.
Laura
Am I the only one who thinks it's really….like, *really* mean to call a person 'basic? like one of the meanest things ever? it's like saying they don't matter 'as much' as some other people, or they're just not as…important or something. It's astounding. Who talks like that???
It's like that expression that's been kicking around, calling someone a "waste of space." I feel the same way about calling a person 'basic' as when I hear that expression being used. Stop being so mean, Rooftop Girl!
I do think her truthbomb on Hanna was, while blunt, kindof accurate in this case.
Zee
I’m pretty sure she just meant like, a person who is emotionally uncomplicated. Someone who is the opposite of Hannah right now, who is applying meaning where there is no meaning. Mar isn’t doing any of that stuff that Hannah thinks she is doing. She’s just having her own life, and Hannah needs something to be angry about.
H3Knuckles
I just took it to mean that the character (pretty sure it's Jane, the too-cool coffee barista friend of Eve's with a thing for Julie, Eve's cutsey, naive former coworker) was just saying that Marigold isn't the type to go to elaborate lengths to mess with someone. She's basic in that she's fairly straightforward, and deals with things in a pretty direct manner. She's not complex because she doesn't scheme or over-analyze others, therefor she's basic.
TLDR; I didn't get the sense that it was being used as an insult or to be dismissive, but rather to discount the possibility of Hannah's accusation.
insanenoodlyguy
Agreed, I'm not sure why so many people are reading it the other way.
Laura
I don't know-calling someone 'simple' or 'basic' seem to be somewhat pejorative terms to me most of the time. Calling someone 'straight forward' on the other hand, seems perfectly natural and, in Mar's case, spot on for sure. The context in which Jane is calling Mar 'basic' lends itself (at least to me) to the whole 'dismissive' tone of this conversation. Also, Jane knows precious little about Mar and how she works; she has no idea how complicated Mar may or may not be; so, to that end, I feel that her snap-judgement of Mar is hurtful and mean.
But this is just one gal's ramblings about a comic of course.
MerchManDan
For what it's worth, I agree: Calling somebody 'basic' is a pretty brutal insult and I'm surprised so many people are rushing to defend Jane for using it to describe Mar. Then again, reading the comments helps me understand their reasoning so I kind of agree with them too?
Sorry, this comment didn't quite go the way I originally meant it to.
MerchManDan
"I'm not sure you're even one of the good guys."
That may not be the best thing to tell Hanna at this point.
grantimusmax
Now I don't think I can relate to Hanna. I mean, I totally get the jealousy thing, but I don't think I've ever had to confront the idea that I'm the bad guy in any of my relationships. Nope. Never had to do that.
Nope.
Stop looking at me in that tone of voice.
Polly
Wow, Hanna. We would never be friends because the earth would be forever scorched from all the truthbombs I'd drop on you for being absolutely horrible to others that are trying to live a happy life.
Laura
yeah, it's completely ridiculous how much of her energies are directed to hating Mar-with a passion. And Mar has and continues to stay the eff out of her way too, as much as possible! Jesus. It's hard to see Hanna hate somebody so much.
But I still think I'm the most stunned by Jane calling Mar 'basic', as though that's an okay way to talk about any human being. AUGH.
Josh
Hannah is not one of the good guys; she is clearly some kind of NPC gnome artificer that will supply the party with stat-enhancing baked goods in exchange for pipeweed, but now she has been feeling underlevelled and not getting enough XP for far too long.
Oliver
Man, Jane and Hannah are being very unlikeable.
H3Knuckles
I feel bad for Hannah, because while she absolutely needs to hear a lot of this, she's not likely to receive the message when it's put this harshly, and all-at-once from multiple sources. At least, it's been my experience observing others (and myself) that people just tend to get defensive and go into denial when they feel like they're under attack.
Hannah is probably my favorite character in the strip, because I feel like she's driven a lot of OP's best character art; between her mercurial behavior and spastic physical comedy, we see a lot of diverse style through strips focused on or featuring her. I mean, think of some of the cartoony, almost Loony Toons-esque slapstick moments, and then go back a couple pages and look at the gorgeous panel of Hannah looking wistful in her costume before she announces that she's backsliding. The musical number strip about emptiness at the beginning of her interest in jogging. The expressiveness during her first attempt to run. Or her rage-face in this strip. I love Meredith's art, and I feel like a character study of Hannah over the strip's life would make the best showcase of OP's variety.
weed man Blue
bouttimeforamake out scene i bet
Hannah
"She" thinks she's an idealized version of Hanna…? Sounds more like HANNA thinks shes an idealized version of herself. I've been there, that's a rough feeling. I hope Hanna makes it out of this funk, I so want her to be happy again!!
Sealion
Depression can lead to a lot of displaced anger. Poor Hanna. I want to give her a hug. Everyone has to be the asshole at some point in their life.
grantimusmax
Sadly, sometimes you have to be the bad guy to get your own house in order. It sucks, but sometimes necessary.
Kiwi
What happened to Mar's gloves?! D: D: D:
Devon
Thank you Meredith, for writing characters that are so wonderful, complex, relatable, and REAL to my generation. Your work inspires great conversations. Thank you thank you thank you!
Tessa The Moo
I love that last panel. I would buy just that panel as a print. I come back to look at this specific page all the time. There's something so acerbic and freeing about it.
Jill
Absolutely awesome Hanna face. I make that face a lot, mentally.