The seagulls are the visual cue. But there should also be a connection between the emotions she feels in this flashback, and the emotions she's feeling in present day. In the flashback, she's angry, and "You wouldn't care if you never saw me again". So probably she's brooding about Park.
Whoa. Agreed, not what I expected. While what we've seen of Eve's mom has shown her to be pushy and sometimes out of touch, I never saw signs of this kind of anger toward her mother. Attachment with parents plays a big role in our attachments in romantic relationships, Eve was probably had an anxious/ambivalent insecure attachment with Park, and has had more avoidant insecure attachments with Will and other men she's been with. Probably her most secure attachment is with Hanna. Anyway, I hope Eve's relationship with her mother gets explored more in these final chapters. Great work!
Man, I was an asshole kid. I was the fuckin' worst child. I have no idea how most parent's deal with their kids, but I applaud mine for putting up with me.
Oh, wow! Yes, intense fear like that can make for bad parenting choices. I think some of the worst for me is when my kid was near the road (my sister was hit by a car and nearly killed), but losing a child at the beach is probably right up there for most people given how quietly, easily and fast a child can drown. Unfortunately, this misplaced anger can really create trust issues. I wonder if Eve associates the starfish for lost spontaneity/ended childhood?
I may not understand it but…
who is talking in two last panels? At first I thought it was Eve, because it's childlish anger. But then I thought that she didn't have reason to say, her mother didn't want to see her again – she was clearly worried and looking for her.
But it feels so… cruel to say such things to your child.
Yet it is great that this is so open to interpretation. And a great scene when relief can turn to anger so quickly.
It's all Eve. It kind of makes sense to me in child-logic to say that because all she sees is the anger her mom is expressing.
"You don't really care about me! All you want to be is grumpy and mean! I didn't do anything wrong, so you're just yelling at me because you hate me!!"
Feel like people are overreacting to this page… This isn't an indication of some deep-seated anger Eve has towards her mother; kids have these kinds of thoughts all the time. She's bitter and should not be taken as a logical assessor of the situation. I'd really say her mom is the relatable one here, even though we can all say we've been Eve here many times over.
Yeah, I agree. As both a mother of a strong-willed child and a strong-willed child myself once, I relate to both characters simultaneously. I have been the angry mother at the end of her rope and the angry child who feels their parents reasonable expectations are unfair and entertained thoughts of teaching them a lesson by running away or something. I can't say any of it was ever traumatic or scarring. Now I know my mother's pain when my own kid stares me down over choosing one book instead of two to read before bedtime.
Right. If you look back with the kid perspective (only seeing that her mom is mad and taking her away from something she wants, and not understanding why he was worried), her angry response makes a lot more sense.
Nah, she's showing her perception according to her view of the situation. Inaccurate or not it's still logical. And 99% emotional. She's feeling limited (albeit about a dumb thing) by her mother's anxious attachment and responding with some deep seated perceptions of her. Again, cause she doesn't see the whole picture and is having a tough time seeing what's going on in her mothers head and painting the picture awfully wrong. Maybe this flashback is Eve regretting her childhood insult to her mother, maybe she's feeling the situation relates to how she is now in some other way. Maybe it's just the sun
I'm inclined to say that seeing this page means that Eve is clearly remembering the event for the first time in her adult life, that it was forgotten but still felt. There are a lot of things one could take from this memory, but what I'm taking from it is Eve's realization of her mother's very human fear and love, and her difficulty getting those things across to the people who most need to understand them. Panel 14, with its identical poses and expressions, says the rest: Eve and her mother are very similar in this regard. Compare to Eve's father, who refuses to be driven by fear, to the point that his family fears for him.
Why exactly this is so important for her to know, I don't yet know. But her dreams have been trying to remind her of this scene since she realized that the life she'd built was fragile and temporary. This will be important moving forward.
I remember that feeling. I remember that angry inner-monologue. "You don't care. You wish I was dead. You probably hate me." It hurts being a kid sometimes.
Thank you for sending me back to those comics.
Not only did it remind me of how cool the whole dream subplot has been, but it also gave me another chance to see that awesome short animation.
oh eve. you were too young to realise people can feel more than one emotion at once. only seeing your mum's anger, unable to see past it the worry, relief, guilt, and sorrow… because you were so little. btw just how old could eve be in this memory? she looks so tiny.
i'm surprised how much this memory has impacted eve's other memories. she had a "version" of it when park left, and she had another version of it the first time park called her a long time after his big move (like a couple days before park got a drink thrown at him).
She looks about 4-6. Old enough to question her mom's judgement and talk back, but too young to be understanding/empathic when an adult goes through complex negative emotions (fear, sadness). I think when I was around that age one of the most disturbing/complex things to see was my mother crying. I remember thinking that she must have hurt her eyes because "grown ups don't cry."
I think that the dream's significance is that it represents adulthood: she can finally do whatever she wants with the starfish, but it's not a lot more than just a slimy pink starfish and you wonder what's the big deal about it in the first place
Holy wow. Ok. So let's break it down.
I do not think that Eve harbors some negativity towards her mother about the beach. But the strong emotion of the situation probably stayed tucked away in her mind. I think the beach represents something to her subconsciously. The feeling of being lost? Of believing you could be left behind, like the starfish on the beach or like she is imagining her mother wants her to disappear, and that nobody would care?
This panel made me cry and cry. It's the perfect end to this story line. How often do people who love each other end up hurting each other because one is saying things one way and the other is hearing another?
Eve, remembering an early experience where the lesson was that love can be complicated and lopsided. This includes love between and among family, friends, jobs, Coney Island, and lovers.
38 thoughts on “#914-916 – i’d never go in the water”
adamrocketblack
H0ly Fuck!
unexpectedly intense .
This is the background in her head
jeybork
This isn't at all what I expected but I love it.
Marvelous hair, fingers, n' toes in this one, I know those take extra care
Dorky
Oh wow.
I think I can relate in some non-specific ways. This page hit me hard.
Col
Wow oh wow. What an intense childhood memory. I wonder why this memory is coming up now? What made Eve think of this?
Doug
The seagulls are the visual cue. But there should also be a connection between the emotions she feels in this flashback, and the emotions she's feeling in present day. In the flashback, she's angry, and "You wouldn't care if you never saw me again". So probably she's brooding about Park.
Alex
Whoa. Agreed, not what I expected. While what we've seen of Eve's mom has shown her to be pushy and sometimes out of touch, I never saw signs of this kind of anger toward her mother. Attachment with parents plays a big role in our attachments in romantic relationships, Eve was probably had an anxious/ambivalent insecure attachment with Park, and has had more avoidant insecure attachments with Will and other men she's been with. Probably her most secure attachment is with Hanna. Anyway, I hope Eve's relationship with her mother gets explored more in these final chapters. Great work!
thistemporarylifeblog
This is the perfect portrait of the fury, fear, and sorrow of being a parent, especially of a strong-willed child. Just lovely.
grimmorrigan
yup
Chiwawa
Man, I was an asshole kid. I was the fuckin' worst child. I have no idea how most parent's deal with their kids, but I applaud mine for putting up with me.
Dotcom
Oh, wow! Yes, intense fear like that can make for bad parenting choices. I think some of the worst for me is when my kid was near the road (my sister was hit by a car and nearly killed), but losing a child at the beach is probably right up there for most people given how quietly, easily and fast a child can drown. Unfortunately, this misplaced anger can really create trust issues. I wonder if Eve associates the starfish for lost spontaneity/ended childhood?
Beccah
It was the seagulls
Copycat
You should go visit your mom, Eve. 😀
peakpointmatrix
Answering some questions while raising so many more.
krasnylud
I may not understand it but…
who is talking in two last panels? At first I thought it was Eve, because it's childlish anger. But then I thought that she didn't have reason to say, her mother didn't want to see her again – she was clearly worried and looking for her.
But it feels so… cruel to say such things to your child.
Yet it is great that this is so open to interpretation. And a great scene when relief can turn to anger so quickly.
Faye
It's all Eve. It kind of makes sense to me in child-logic to say that because all she sees is the anger her mom is expressing.
"You don't really care about me! All you want to be is grumpy and mean! I didn't do anything wrong, so you're just yelling at me because you hate me!!"
Dugliss
Feel like people are overreacting to this page… This isn't an indication of some deep-seated anger Eve has towards her mother; kids have these kinds of thoughts all the time. She's bitter and should not be taken as a logical assessor of the situation. I'd really say her mom is the relatable one here, even though we can all say we've been Eve here many times over.
Chocoboo
Yeah, I agree. As both a mother of a strong-willed child and a strong-willed child myself once, I relate to both characters simultaneously. I have been the angry mother at the end of her rope and the angry child who feels their parents reasonable expectations are unfair and entertained thoughts of teaching them a lesson by running away or something. I can't say any of it was ever traumatic or scarring. Now I know my mother's pain when my own kid stares me down over choosing one book instead of two to read before bedtime.
Katie
Right. If you look back with the kid perspective (only seeing that her mom is mad and taking her away from something she wants, and not understanding why he was worried), her angry response makes a lot more sense.
Mr Shine
Nah, she's showing her perception according to her view of the situation. Inaccurate or not it's still logical. And 99% emotional. She's feeling limited (albeit about a dumb thing) by her mother's anxious attachment and responding with some deep seated perceptions of her. Again, cause she doesn't see the whole picture and is having a tough time seeing what's going on in her mothers head and painting the picture awfully wrong. Maybe this flashback is Eve regretting her childhood insult to her mother, maybe she's feeling the situation relates to how she is now in some other way. Maybe it's just the sun
James
I'm inclined to say that seeing this page means that Eve is clearly remembering the event for the first time in her adult life, that it was forgotten but still felt. There are a lot of things one could take from this memory, but what I'm taking from it is Eve's realization of her mother's very human fear and love, and her difficulty getting those things across to the people who most need to understand them. Panel 14, with its identical poses and expressions, says the rest: Eve and her mother are very similar in this regard. Compare to Eve's father, who refuses to be driven by fear, to the point that his family fears for him.
Why exactly this is so important for her to know, I don't yet know. But her dreams have been trying to remind her of this scene since she realized that the life she'd built was fragile and temporary. This will be important moving forward.
Nice Idiot
"I was ready to jump in there after you…" vs "but you can't swim." Very powerful. Very telling.
Nick
*reading intensifying*
Fwillem
I remember that feeling. I remember that angry inner-monologue. "You don't care. You wish I was dead. You probably hate me." It hurts being a kid sometimes.
Molotov
"I was ready to jump in there after you."
"But you can't swim."
Ouch…
Rufi
I think this is a call back to the dream Eve had and thought it was about Park?
melonby
The previous dreams: http://www.octopuspie.com/2016-04-27/893-starfish… http://www.octopuspie.com/2014-01-22/636-are-you-…
humanoftheyear
oh man, it looks like the dude facing away (kinda reminds me of wil's profile) is holding a bundle in that first comic
Belle
Woah! It DOES look like Will! But the other dream sequence it does look like park, or possibly her Dad???
Chris
Thank you for sending me back to those comics.
Not only did it remind me of how cool the whole dream subplot has been, but it also gave me another chance to see that awesome short animation.
manlyshimapan
oh eve. you were too young to realise people can feel more than one emotion at once. only seeing your mum's anger, unable to see past it the worry, relief, guilt, and sorrow… because you were so little. btw just how old could eve be in this memory? she looks so tiny.
i'm surprised how much this memory has impacted eve's other memories. she had a "version" of it when park left, and she had another version of it the first time park called her a long time after his big move (like a couple days before park got a drink thrown at him).
Dotcom
She looks about 4-6. Old enough to question her mom's judgement and talk back, but too young to be understanding/empathic when an adult goes through complex negative emotions (fear, sadness). I think when I was around that age one of the most disturbing/complex things to see was my mother crying. I remember thinking that she must have hurt her eyes because "grown ups don't cry."
Snooper
I wonder if eve's thinking about the idea of having children. That last threshold of adulthood.
Remember, in a past beach scene, she saw park holding a child…
katara
Isn't this what eve's been dreaming?
bugo
I think that the dream's significance is that it represents adulthood: she can finally do whatever she wants with the starfish, but it's not a lot more than just a slimy pink starfish and you wonder what's the big deal about it in the first place
GalacticPeanut
The craziest thing about this is that exact scene happened to me. And I thought those exact thoughts. Woah.
Booga
Holy wow. Ok. So let's break it down.
I do not think that Eve harbors some negativity towards her mother about the beach. But the strong emotion of the situation probably stayed tucked away in her mind. I think the beach represents something to her subconsciously. The feeling of being lost? Of believing you could be left behind, like the starfish on the beach or like she is imagining her mother wants her to disappear, and that nobody would care?
inv3rtebrate
This panel made me cry and cry. It's the perfect end to this story line. How often do people who love each other end up hurting each other because one is saying things one way and the other is hearing another?
Virginia
Eve, remembering an early experience where the lesson was that love can be complicated and lopsided. This includes love between and among family, friends, jobs, Coney Island, and lovers.