It's also a pretty poor drug-no appreciable high, stinks, costs a lot. And, as you say, it can kill or weaken you in any number of inventive ways. Can't see a reason why I spent so many years in thrall to tobacco…
Unfortunately we made mistakes as a teenager that followed us into adulthood (I don't know any habitual cigarette smokers that started after age 15). And we know it's killing us and it's expensive and it smells bad and it makes us look stupid (NOT badass)… FAR better than any non-smoker does, trust me. Just knowing that isn't enough to break an addiction though. That's what defines it as such…
I started at 21–still going strong at 48. Probably quit by 50, we'll see. The reason I started, and probably more than the addiction the reason I continue, is that I strongly needed to commit suicide, but couldn't actually go through with it for the usual reasons. Those non-suicide reasons have changed over the years, but the cheap thrill remains–the knowledge that I'm killing myself, without all the inconveniences of actually dying right away.
Hopefully that smirk on Jane's face in that last panel means she's planning on taking this conversation in a positive direction instead of letting the resentment spiral…
They should be doing stretches and warm-ups right now for the obstacle course waiting for them to get to Jane's apartment instead of all this relationship stuff.
I'm not sure if Jane would read it, but "Letting Go" by David Sedaris is a fantastic short retrospective on the conflicted emotions of a smoker trying to quit. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/05/05/lett…
I’d read it more as a visceral “that is *not* The Problem here” response which is accidentally technically overstated… followed by “oh, but I guess it is kinda still a problem.”
I guess, like if you were a strict-ethics-or-religion-based vegetarian and choosing pizza with friends and they kept teasing you by saying you should put different meats on your pizza, you might respond to a suggestion of pineapple (if said like it’s on the same level with the meats and implying that you’re just toooo piiiicky) with “Pineapple’s fine!” (because, compared with pepperoni, that thing you really *won’t* eat, it is) and then remembering that you actually kinda prefer pizza without pineapple.
I guess, I think Marigold’s “big problem” here is not “Jane Smokes” – something else is itching her and while she doesn’t really *want* Jane to be smoking (especially while Marigold is trying to quit, I assume), that’s not the top thing Marigold is needing communication/understanding about.
(that said, yes, overstating things is an annoying speech pattern, although I’d rather people back off the statement immediately in a calm way than… any other method I can think of for dealing with the fact that an overstatement has occurred, including letting the false statement stand as-is.)
Also it's hard to have these discussions. These are the things that can destroy a relationship if you have them too early (or too late). In a way Jane's trying to incite a discussion of a minor thing because the first thing they need to do is talk shit out. The last discussion was terrible and huge.
Maybe the result is that Jane tries to quit because she's willing to do that much for relationship (as we've seen from her internal discussions). The thing is that Marigold must realize this, and that it's ok to ask her partner to consider her too. This would be a huge change on how they both handle relationships.
To me it read more as Marigold not having the presence of mind to distinguish between her dislike of Jane smoking and everything else. She can't separate out anything that happened on her own.
That is incredibly frustrating to deal with especially when the person 1) lashes out when in an emotional situation, 2) makes it difficult to be understood because they say two different things back to back.
So, if I was in a fight with Marigold, I'd probably check out of the whole thing, because she can't handle her shit. She's just a mess and will make other people a mess. Marigold in real life would break jane's little heart. Marigold in real life would not rise to her better nature.
The top thing Marigold is needing to communicate about is figuring out how to communicate and be honest with others and herself about her own needs and wants. She spends too much time trying to perform as this perfect person for other people. So while yeah, the underlying problem isn't Jane smoking, I don't think that's really the point Jane is getting at here.
JackPoint
Yeah… I dunno what direction Jane will take this, but that's the thing. If Jane can't get Marigold to admit, even to herself, what the problem is, then she will continue to be passive-aggressive and blow up like she did tonight, and I don't think either of them want that.
And Marigold smoking on the pier was her trying to fit in with two other smokers and hating herself for trying to fit in. Her not talking to Hannah for so long has been because she thinks (or thought) that she didn't have to fit in with old friends. That she was beyond that and had moved on. That the perfection she projects had finally worked. Then she met Jane, and the perfection REALLY seemed to have paid off…
And then Marek reminded her that her projection of perfection was all, at least on some level, a lie. Hence the smoking on the pier but doing it alone and hatefully. Jane continuing to smoke reminds her of that, even though the smoking itself isn't a problem.
It would be pretty damning if she didn't care though.
I mean, I'm not a smoker, but saying you don't care whether your gf is addicted or not makes it sound like you don't care about HER. there's holding it against a loved one and then there's not wanting them to suffer health problems through it.
Personally, I hate that anyone smokes. I would dearly love for the tobacco industry to crawl up its own ass and die. But maybe that's just because my wife died from lung cancer when she was only 49.
I don't know why people dont like Mar but I dont think Jane picked a fight either. Jane legit wants to know how Mar feels about her smoking but Mar is just in a REALY bad mood. Watch out people.
Jane is confronting Marigold's passive-aggressive attitude. Hence the crazy smile at the end when she gets to some of the truth (rather than more deflection).
I can really relate to Marigold in how she's handling this issue. A past partner of mine smoked, and at times I tried hard to be cool/understanding with it, but ultimately really didn't like it and wished he didn't smoke. Once I decided to just be honest and tell tell him I wished he didn't smoke, it was refreshing for me to not tip toe around it, and he wanted to quit, so I was able to support him in his quitting efforts. But I definitely went through the period that Marigold is in right now of, "Just be cool with it!"
Ok, I've just gotta say that Jane is being kind of annoying about the smoking issue. There is a huge difference between resenting someone for smoking, and wishing they wouldn't because it's unhealthy. That is what Mar says, and instantly Jane jumps on it and is like "YES! See, I knew you hated me for it!"
I should read more fiction like this, I've recently stepped in a territory of human relationships that's rarely touched upon by college or high school stories, much less "grown up" stuff.
Huh. I watch too much anime if college and high school fiction is a prominent category in my consumption.
35 thoughts on “#878 – there it is”
Copycat
Real talk though, ya'll:
All you people who smoke cigarettes, I wish you didn't.
It's cool and makes you look like a badass, but.. well, you know.
TheHairyCoo
It's also a pretty poor drug-no appreciable high, stinks, costs a lot. And, as you say, it can kill or weaken you in any number of inventive ways. Can't see a reason why I spent so many years in thrall to tobacco…
jeybork
Well, you left out the best part, its high dependence potential!
Lizzz
Yeah, we know. We wish we didn't, too.
Unfortunately we made mistakes as a teenager that followed us into adulthood (I don't know any habitual cigarette smokers that started after age 15). And we know it's killing us and it's expensive and it smells bad and it makes us look stupid (NOT badass)… FAR better than any non-smoker does, trust me. Just knowing that isn't enough to break an addiction though. That's what defines it as such…
fookiesan
I started at 21–still going strong at 48. Probably quit by 50, we'll see. The reason I started, and probably more than the addiction the reason I continue, is that I strongly needed to commit suicide, but couldn't actually go through with it for the usual reasons. Those non-suicide reasons have changed over the years, but the cheap thrill remains–the knowledge that I'm killing myself, without all the inconveniences of actually dying right away.
barefootbiker
Hopefully that smirk on Jane's face in that last panel means she's planning on taking this conversation in a positive direction instead of letting the resentment spiral…
kat
you can tell they haven't been together all that long, given Mar didn't know where to stop walking.
peakpointmatrix
Um.
They should be doing stretches and warm-ups right now for the obstacle course waiting for them to get to Jane's apartment instead of all this relationship stuff.
Arianod
They'll be too tired for the relationship stuff once they've got there.
Kyle H.
Hoo boy.
jeybork
I'm not sure if Jane would read it, but "Letting Go" by David Sedaris is a fantastic short retrospective on the conflicted emotions of a smoker trying to quit.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/05/05/lett…
Molotov
That was a lovely article! Thank you for posting the link!
jeybork
Thanks! My wife is a reformed smoker and this article helped me understand her mindset. I shared it with her and she said it rang true.
Marvin Choi
I mean, if ya gotta smoke ya gotta smoke, do what ya gotta do, mang
JAC
Man, I just do not like Marigold.
Panel 7: Jane asks a blunt straight question. Marigold harshly denies.
Panel 8: Marigold quietly tries to assert what she thinks.
Interacting with people like Marigold drives me nuts.
KC
I’d read it more as a visceral “that is *not* The Problem here” response which is accidentally technically overstated… followed by “oh, but I guess it is kinda still a problem.”
I guess, like if you were a strict-ethics-or-religion-based vegetarian and choosing pizza with friends and they kept teasing you by saying you should put different meats on your pizza, you might respond to a suggestion of pineapple (if said like it’s on the same level with the meats and implying that you’re just toooo piiiicky) with “Pineapple’s fine!” (because, compared with pepperoni, that thing you really *won’t* eat, it is) and then remembering that you actually kinda prefer pizza without pineapple.
I guess, I think Marigold’s “big problem” here is not “Jane Smokes” – something else is itching her and while she doesn’t really *want* Jane to be smoking (especially while Marigold is trying to quit, I assume), that’s not the top thing Marigold is needing communication/understanding about.
(that said, yes, overstating things is an annoying speech pattern, although I’d rather people back off the statement immediately in a calm way than… any other method I can think of for dealing with the fact that an overstatement has occurred, including letting the false statement stand as-is.)
Charlie Lobo
Also it's hard to have these discussions. These are the things that can destroy a relationship if you have them too early (or too late). In a way Jane's trying to incite a discussion of a minor thing because the first thing they need to do is talk shit out. The last discussion was terrible and huge.
Maybe the result is that Jane tries to quit because she's willing to do that much for relationship (as we've seen from her internal discussions). The thing is that Marigold must realize this, and that it's ok to ask her partner to consider her too. This would be a huge change on how they both handle relationships.
JAC
To me it read more as Marigold not having the presence of mind to distinguish between her dislike of Jane smoking and everything else. She can't separate out anything that happened on her own.
That is incredibly frustrating to deal with especially when the person 1) lashes out when in an emotional situation, 2) makes it difficult to be understood because they say two different things back to back.
So, if I was in a fight with Marigold, I'd probably check out of the whole thing, because she can't handle her shit. She's just a mess and will make other people a mess. Marigold in real life would break jane's little heart. Marigold in real life would not rise to her better nature.
jackelgin
The top thing Marigold is needing to communicate about is figuring out how to communicate and be honest with others and herself about her own needs and wants. She spends too much time trying to perform as this perfect person for other people. So while yeah, the underlying problem isn't Jane smoking, I don't think that's really the point Jane is getting at here.
JackPoint
Yeah… I dunno what direction Jane will take this, but that's the thing. If Jane can't get Marigold to admit, even to herself, what the problem is, then she will continue to be passive-aggressive and blow up like she did tonight, and I don't think either of them want that.
And Marigold smoking on the pier was her trying to fit in with two other smokers and hating herself for trying to fit in. Her not talking to Hannah for so long has been because she thinks (or thought) that she didn't have to fit in with old friends. That she was beyond that and had moved on. That the perfection she projects had finally worked. Then she met Jane, and the perfection REALLY seemed to have paid off…
And then Marek reminded her that her projection of perfection was all, at least on some level, a lie. Hence the smoking on the pier but doing it alone and hatefully. Jane continuing to smoke reminds her of that, even though the smoking itself isn't a problem.
Just my take on it.
errb
It would be pretty damning if she didn't care though.
I mean, I'm not a smoker, but saying you don't care whether your gf is addicted or not makes it sound like you don't care about HER. there's holding it against a loved one and then there's not wanting them to suffer health problems through it.
Yammy
*quietly and privately decides I could be less of a Marigold when people ask me questions like that*
Scott Bieser
Personally, I hate that anyone smokes. I would dearly love for the tobacco industry to crawl up its own ass and die. But maybe that's just because my wife died from lung cancer when she was only 49.
gonzostoy
Man I am so sorry to hear that. It seems, with smoking,we make educated decisions from the facts……and the facts are just plain sad. So sad.
jon
Marigold is not one to leave the roller coaster behind when she leaves the amusement park.
Yammo
Haha! Blammo
Channamasala
So, I'm seeing Jane straight up pick a fight with Marigold and people still saying that is why they don't like Marigold…
Jojo
I don't know why people dont like Mar but I dont think Jane picked a fight either. Jane legit wants to know how Mar feels about her smoking but Mar is just in a REALY bad mood. Watch out people.
JackPoint
Jane is confronting Marigold's passive-aggressive attitude. Hence the crazy smile at the end when she gets to some of the truth (rather than more deflection).
Marigold has the problem, not Jane.
Belisarius
Jane is handling this mess a lot better than I would if I were in her place and she's the best
Kelly
I can really relate to Marigold in how she's handling this issue. A past partner of mine smoked, and at times I tried hard to be cool/understanding with it, but ultimately really didn't like it and wished he didn't smoke. Once I decided to just be honest and tell tell him I wished he didn't smoke, it was refreshing for me to not tip toe around it, and he wanted to quit, so I was able to support him in his quitting efforts. But I definitely went through the period that Marigold is in right now of, "Just be cool with it!"
Koerner
Ok, I've just gotta say that Jane is being kind of annoying about the smoking issue. There is a huge difference between resenting someone for smoking, and wishing they wouldn't because it's unhealthy. That is what Mar says, and instantly Jane jumps on it and is like "YES! See, I knew you hated me for it!"
GreenwolfeESL
Speaking of the visuals, the light effects are beautiful!
erejnion
I should read more fiction like this, I've recently stepped in a territory of human relationships that's rarely touched upon by college or high school stories, much less "grown up" stuff.
Huh. I watch too much anime if college and high school fiction is a prominent category in my consumption.
astrothestickman
Wasn't Marigold smoking just a few strips ago on the beach?